tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post2526144698611115212..comments2023-10-08T14:19:32.645+01:00Comments on Crossing Cultures: India and the UK: Not leaving in styleNaomi Cantonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09907186811005571147noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post-7608997496098349472011-09-24T11:36:24.864+01:002011-09-24T11:36:24.864+01:00May be I haven't searched your blog enough, bu...May be I haven't searched your blog enough, but I was disappointed (don't take it personally) to not read much about the contribution of a few expats to the sports scene in Mumbai and elsewhere. It's very commonplace to see expats lending a few tips, and participating in community sports here ...sorabhhttp://thefarpost.innoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post-27155463634095147402010-09-11T18:07:02.573+01:002010-09-11T18:07:02.573+01:00Hello Heather! Noo, you are an exception as you f...Hello Heather! Noo, you are an exception as you fell in love and married an Indian, and as of recently, even had a child there! That makes you an exception as love came into play...And when love/relationships come into it, anyone might decide on anything...rationale disappears out the window. Having said that I'm surprised you "prefer India by miles.." Would be interested to know the reasons, if you care to share them..:)<br /> I do agree there are upsides and downsides to both places. But it does take ages to become aware of even these...So in India there will be a novelty factor that attracts an expat at the outset..but whether it is duarable and whether the expat feels the same 3-4 years down the line, is the question. The same applies to Indians migrating to England. None of this applies to people who have married into the other culture, as that is cmpltyly different.Naomihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06286744879470432721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post-86236657948715107212010-09-06T09:32:16.745+01:002010-09-06T09:32:16.745+01:00That is me! A hardened British expat ... though I ...That is me! A hardened British expat ... though I am from Devon not London so I shouldn't be anti the old country. Actually I'm not really anti it, I just prefer India by miles. But then again as you well know, there are huge upsides and downsides to both. Ideally one needs to be filthy rich with a pad in the UK (or 2 - one in 'town' and one in devon dorset or somerset) and a flash apartment in Bandra .... and spend a few months at a time in each ....Heather Saville Guptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03278109458135310603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post-89561620983862532662010-09-05T20:46:43.595+01:002010-09-05T20:46:43.595+01:00Wow, calm down ! I think it is all about the numbe...Wow, calm down ! I think it is all about the numbers... no developed (esp EU) country can possibly allow zero potential wrt India. Think about it, the population is 1 billion, even if 1% of the people end up migrating, in lets say a generous period of 10 years, it adds up to 10 million which is 15-20% of the population of European countries (among which Britian will be the most preferred option for migration because of the language and also because there are already many Indian (origin) people there). Also, Indians, as you said are pretty connected to their culture etc., and hence generally do not completely adopt the culture of the country which they are migrating to (even if it is to become a secondary culture for them) a great deal. Although I have traveled relatively less, but taking to friends etc., there seems to be an Indian local community in every country that has substantial Indian immigrants. Perhaps, no country would want to be influenced like that.<br /><br />In fact, I noticed how proud Europeans are of their *distinct* culture, food, wine (French :)) etc. I have been pointed at small things and told that this is typically French. I never thought of it like this. In India diversity is just taken for granted, nobody explicitly notices it. In fact, I used to have a chill running down my spine when I was asked questions like 'What are the typicall Indian dishes?', or 'What kind of music does India have?'. I didn't want to disappoint people or be rude to them but I am not competent enough (I guess no Indian can possibly be) to answer these, especially in a few lines as was expected. Anyway, my point is it is relatively easy for these countries to have their culture diluted by immigrants, which are small (in numbers) when you look at it from the Indian side but are large when seen from theirs. I think I can understand (but perhaps can't quite articulate that well) why they want Indians to get a visa to get in. <br /><br />About the work permit, what you say is true but you should see from the following perspective also. The general trend is migration of skilled labor from India to abroad. If a person is going in the opposite direction probably he (or the company inviting) has much to gain and hence a relatively big price for the work permit isn't a big thing. In a few cases I know the companies reimbursed this (I am mostly talking of high tech sector, may be diff in others) if not literally under the head of 'work permit' then as a 'relocation allowance'. With some countries of course (like you pointed out Israel) it is much more diplomatic.<br /><br />Hope my words made some sense !<br /><br />Take careThe Lone Musketeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02958644693616020022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post-35403193309277523482010-09-03T22:33:30.434+01:002010-09-03T22:33:30.434+01:00@Lone Musketeer, I really don't get this whole...@Lone Musketeer, I really don't get this whole Indians needing a visa to go anywhere in the world..thing..it really disgusts me and must be stopped...Indians are more connected to their families, culture, cuisine and roots than any race I know so they are the last to be the types to try and remain in a country illegally....it's so backward that it still persists..I have a couple of Indian friends who happened to be born in London to Indian (not British Asian parents) and they managed to get British passports just because of that - the parents were only in England on holiday at the time - and soon returned to India, but it does make their travel arrangements so much easier.....<br />Mind you the Indian Governemnt is now making it harder for Britons to work there...When I first moved to India, I think a work permit was 30 pounds (Rs 2,000) for one year, now it is 350 pounds (Rs25,000 to Rs 30,000)....Of course if you are Israeli it is even worse.....they charge double...<br />@projenator: would you explain your comment please?!!Naomi Cantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09907186811005571147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post-8588571727833142832010-09-03T00:31:29.590+01:002010-09-03T00:31:29.590+01:00Nice Nice..Nice Nice..Sharathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14215393776925188267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post-53227603775590599422010-09-02T04:49:59.417+01:002010-09-02T04:49:59.417+01:00For a migrant in the US, this is all I have to say...For a migrant in the US, this is all I have to say...<br /><br />"If pleasure be happiness, happy indeed they are"Proj Ghoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10460635793715023792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post-33349450257105137162010-09-01T22:55:24.723+01:002010-09-01T22:55:24.723+01:00And, I live in Caen in Lower Normandy. Being an In...And, I live in Caen in Lower Normandy. Being an Indian I need a visa to go anywhere in the world so haven't been to England yet, might go for some academic events later.<br /><br />However, if you ever visit France and by chance or otherwise head north-westwards, do tell !The Lone Musketeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02958644693616020022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post-48133244963787195612010-09-01T22:50:57.529+01:002010-09-01T22:50:57.529+01:00Hey Naomi,
Thanks for your recommendations also. ...Hey Naomi,<br /><br />Thanks for your recommendations also. I have watched the series by Michael Woods, I think the book has the same material. The series was amazing though!<br />And I am also hoping to read Argumentative Indian some day :)<br /><br />Btw, here is something interesting...<br />http://www.sitasingstheblues.com/<br />It is 'free' movie by an American and views the Hindu epic Ramayana as 'the greatest break up story ever told'!!!, I am yet to watch it, incidentally it was recommended to me by a British colleague.<br /><br />Also, I wrote a blog, inspired by the book and your blogs!, where I try to analyze the Indian family where you might find some answers or at least some food for thought...<br />http://lonemusketeer.blogspot.com/2010/09/analysis-of-indian-family.html<br />It is, I think, in a more serious tone (geeky/nerdy, don't know the difference in the cultural loadings on these two western words :(, Indian stereotype) and the lame excuse for potentially being rude at places is an ingenious extension of Newton's (ironically English!) thought; we see further by standing on the shoulders of giants (not that I picture you (or the authors) as a giant) and sometimes when we don't like one of the shoulders we try to hack it off. <br /><br />Cheers!The Lone Musketeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02958644693616020022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post-56662920951723013162010-08-31T22:29:13.125+01:002010-08-31T22:29:13.125+01:00I completely agree with that finding. The article ...I completely agree with that finding. The article you refer to is about Indians migrating to countries like the UK, but it is equally true of Brits migrating elsewhere as well. I don't know of any British expat that is truly happy living overseas, and that includes ones I know living in India, Australia, Spain, America and Dubai...That is why we are known as "whingeing Poms"...I certainly think that people are generlly happier in their own countries (although there would be some exceptions, such as war-torn countries, dictatorships and so on..) But if you were to list a Pakistani out of the flooded parts of Pakistan and bring them to England, they would not like it after some time...there would be many aspects of life they would probably hate....I know of many Indian immigrants in the UK and most of them complain about England the whole time (I am referring to Indian expats not British Asians who were born here as they do like England...)Naomi Cantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09907186811005571147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post-36291154044160493822010-08-31T16:20:14.056+01:002010-08-31T16:20:14.056+01:00A very interesting article I read a few minutes ag...A very interesting article I read a few minutes ago. A UK study says migration does not bring happiness<br /><br />http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/services/travel/visa-power/Migration-does-not-bring-happiness-UK-study/articleshow/6469011.cmsProj Ghoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10460635793715023792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post-45445076144806241192010-08-30T20:41:45.824+01:002010-08-30T20:41:45.824+01:00Thanks Gaurav,
I am still checking Expat 0n the E...Thanks Gaurav,<br /><br />I am still checking Expat 0n the Edge. Thanks for the recommendation...Im currently reading Michael Wood's The Story of India (published by the BBC), which is very readable and I'm really enjoying...<br /><br />http://www.amazon.co.uk/Story-India-Michael-Wood/dp/0563539151<br /><br />Have also been recommended to read The Argumentative Indian by Amartya Sen..<br /><br />The book you recommend sounds quite interesting.<br /><br />By the way feel free to recommend anuthing on this blog (provided it is moral!) - there are no restrictions....it's cool.Naomi Cantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09907186811005571147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post-4680836437238641622010-08-29T16:00:37.466+01:002010-08-29T16:00:37.466+01:00Hi Naomi,
Guess you are not reading the HT blog c...Hi Naomi,<br /><br />Guess you are not reading the HT blog comments anymore...<br />So, in summary, I stumbled across your blogs a few days ago. Thanks for the blogs, they were a treat to read and here is a reference which should help in understanding Indian society better and might answer some of your questions vaguely. It is an interesting read anyway (I am not related to these guys in any way :))<br /><br />Sudhir Kakar, Katharina Kakar. The Indians: Portrait of a People, Penguin India, 2009<br /><br />And the link: http://www.penguinbooksindia.com/category/Non_Fiction/The_Indians_9780143066637.aspx<br /><br />Hope it helps.<br /><br />Best<br />GauravThe Lone Musketeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02958644693616020022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post-50222157544119910102010-08-28T13:22:29.275+01:002010-08-28T13:22:29.275+01:00Ok, that is the weirdest comment ever. Who is this...Ok, that is the weirdest comment ever. Who is this guy? I don't know anyone called Paul.....Who has a number that costs 3.99 a minute?! I can call India for 0.5 p a minute...I do not advise anyone to ring the number above...<br />Paul, thanks for your comments...I get the humour and it was very funny....altho clearly we don't know each other. Which alias did you use on HT Blogs? I don't mind you advertising something here, but that number looks well dodgy...If anyone rich wants to try it, and tell me what happens, please do - you will need to be in the UK though.Naomi Cantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09907186811005571147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post-77674376373200920972010-08-28T10:31:48.019+01:002010-08-28T10:31:48.019+01:00Oh! Ni, its heartening to know you have left. I me...Oh! Ni, its heartening to know you have left. I mean you just left because I got busy with my work and was not able to visit your blog regularly and not able to ward off that troll named Rajeev Yadav that you actually decided to LEAVE me? That's outrageous. <br /><br />Together we saw so many dreams, of opening topless strip clubs, of drinking champagne by the moon light in Udaipur and of, well, having HIV tests together!<br /> <br />We also dreamt of having chai together at Paharganj, of going to South Hall together and of moving around as an interracial couple. Now suddenly you have shattered all my (our) dreams and have decided to answer your mother's prayers???<br /><br />How can you be so heartless? And while you sent your two cats (unaccompanied), you refused to take me to your developed country. How good would we have looked walking hand in hand with people jealously looking at the good-looking British blonde and a handsome Indian bloke. Now it's all going to be just a dream. <br /><br />By leaving me in my third-world misery you have bereft yourself of a good copy editor who would eagerly tell you of your mistakes before any one would read it. The spelling mistakes, the grammatical errors, the nonsensical sentences your articles had, being written after getting wasted in Lower Parel's numerous watering-holes. Who would do it for you now? Not me!<br /><br />And look at that ridiculously tied pink salwaar. It's supposed to be tied on the hip bones and nor 10 inches above it. It's all because I have stopped advising you on things Indian and how they need to be done correctly. But I, again, as always admit that you look way too beautiful in a nice salwaar kameez than you do in any western dress any day. <br /><br />Uff! I'm so speechless, with head in my hands thinking how my social status would have gone up when people would have known that I am dating a gori that that too from a developed country that we were once slaves to. Oh that cut-glass British accent would have acted like a best aphrodisiac ever. And as far as I know you always wanted to date a good-looking, good-hearted Indian guy. So why did you give up? <br /><br />This can't be true you gatta some back and now!!! Call me now (1-800-525-date) (Calls from BT phones only. Call rates £ 3.99 per min.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post-30720527564633964312010-08-27T11:05:10.948+01:002010-08-27T11:05:10.948+01:00Hi there, Thanks for your messages! Sucheta, do co...Hi there, Thanks for your messages! Sucheta, do come and visit England...I think you would really like it! It's really worth the trip, esp outside London where I am now..<br />Hi KJS - Nice to see you here again...Naomi Cantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09907186811005571147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post-42650099304058317312010-08-25T11:52:04.777+01:002010-08-25T11:52:04.777+01:00Naomi,
Yes mothers are like that!! You are lookin...Naomi,<br /><br />Yes mothers are like that!! You are looking so gorgeous and ravishing particularly in the first photo!! Sorry to hear about your last time hitches!<br /><br />Wish you all the best for your future!!<br /><br />Will keep visiting hereUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01354207262196116455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5832712107971287912.post-37202554513333593372010-08-25T07:02:13.130+01:002010-08-25T07:02:13.130+01:00i have been following this blog since i came acros...i have been following this blog since i came across your HT blog few weeks ago.<br />I have moved across most of east and north india throughout my childhood, and it is ALWAYS messy!<br />But it is always fun too!<br />3 years is the perfect time to belong to a place: after that life there becomes a drag for me and I want to move on. So i feel really happy for your Mumbai experience and I hope to have the same in England some day!Sucheta Tiwarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03967049609309174392noreply@blogger.com